Hi Seejay,

Okay, I understand. This is a somewhat different idea than the thing I'm trying. So with the Primal Blueprint style, the income can be modified by the outgoing (burned) CHO. As long as burned exceeds taken in, you're good. Okay. The way I'm doing it, the CHO is kept at under 50g/day (better at 20) no matter what you're burning. It has to do with straight incoming glucose, not what you're burning.

Since reading your post, I went on to Mark Sisson's sites and was reading a bit about it. Looks good. I bookmarked it and will be back reading more on the Daily Apple site. Thanks for the explanation. This would also explain Tim Olson's use of gels during races.

The next two things I'm going to look for are: 1) would these carbs be eaten immediately after the exercise--or at least with protein--to dampen the insulin response? and, 2) if the body runs better on fats, why not give it fats during a long race (like a 100 mile run)? This is related to a question I've been asking on a few low-carb, high-fat sites and still haven't gotten any useful answer to yet: what should a low-carb, high-fat distance runner eat during a multi-hour event? I'm not going to bring a can of olive oil or a tub of veggie dip--despite 20gms of fat and 0-2 gms CHO per serving--to a race...but other than nuts, which also do have carbs, what else is relatively easy to bring and eat during a race?

This is a fascinating new area for me--until five weeks ago, I was a 30+ year vegetarian. I just started using ketone test strips and am interested in seeing how those numbers go as I journey through this low-carb lifestyle.

Thank you very much for the response, Seejay.

Interesting that you should ask. I ride the Seagull Century bike ride (100 miles, 6.5 hours) a couple of weekends ago. I wanted to make sure that I was in ketosis for the ride and kept my carbs at or below 20g for an entire month beforehand.

The morning of the ride I had 4 whole scrambled eggs and about 5 oz. of home made sausage. During the ride I ate homemade PEMMICAN! If you haven't heard of it, pemmican is dried pulverized beef mixed 50/50 with beef tallow. I added a few spices to make it palatable.

Despite 93 deg. heat, I finished strong and never got hungry or cramped. I've been told that endurance athletes perform in a state of ketosis, allowing them to go longer without refueling.

Goog

Have you seen this post by Alan Couzens, he talks about fuel use during a multi-hour event. Really fascinating to me too.

What you eat during the multi-hour seems to depend on how fat adapted you are. The more fat adapted, the longer glucose lasts. So maybe you could get by with something like pemmican. Wellness Meats sells it with cherries, I never tried it but maybe that's why the fruit is in there - in case glucose from all sources is running out.

I have a marathon running friend that just freezes blobs of peanut butter, banana, and protein powder.

Fat Burning Essentials

How many hours after eating, was that bonk?
What are you eating nowadays?
What is your exercise program, daily and weekly?

It does sound to me like you ran out of glycogen / glucose.

If you're at Atkins induction level of carbs, and you're doing something every day like strength training and long bike rides, your body might not be making enough glucose for your exercise needs, yet.

it could be a matter of waiting for more adaptation, OR
you need more protein for gluconeogenesis, OR
you need more fat, OR
you need more slow carbs.

I like to think of the kinds of fuel as if fat were the gas in the car, and carbs are the spark plug energy. Exercise always needs some glucose as the muscle spark plugs. YOu need some to keep the engine running and since it's sparks, you really don't want more or less than you need.

In the case of a bonk, your metabolic engine quit. So how to make sure you have enough glucose in the spark plugs - that is, in muscle glycogen and the liver - for your bike rides?
I would check all three factors.
Make sure there's enough protein.
Make sure there's enough fat so you can spare glucose.
And make sure you replenish the glucose / glycogen burned in your exercise program. Either by having replenish days after intense exercise or having more than 20 g of carbs if you do it every day.

The key for me to avoid bonking is to eat frequently, but carbs with high fat. Try cheese sticks and apple slices. My opinion(not worth 2 cents in these matters) is that bananas are too glycemic. Munching peanuts and staying very hydrated also helps me during a ride.

I going to stick with my original guess, you're producing ketones (based on your carb level) but your body is still learning to use them. Be patient. Dr. A talks about not exercising at all in the first few weeks of induction for this reason.

BTW, go ahead and try ketostix, but if you never get purple, that doesn't mean anything. I never got more than a pinkish color. A blood ketone meter is much more accurate....and MUCH more expensive.

Goog

I'll definitely check out "compromises for endurance athletes"... I think you're right about it taking more time for me to adapt. I'm going to try a gel pack next time I ride since its more fast-acting. And I may try using Sport Legs capsules too. I've used it before I was on the low carb diet from time to time.

Just a thought on carbing up for a ride. Are you exercizing/low carbing to lose weight, or for performance? I ask because I've been re-reading Gary Taubes' book (WWGF) again and he devotes an entire chapter to the notion that exercize does not help you lose weight, but instead makes you hungry.

My own experience is that, initially, there is a performance loss when you switch to a low carb diet, which you are experiencing. If you try to maintain your exercise regimen, you may be hampering weight loss. As you adapt, your energy level goes up and exercise is a natural consequence of the diet.

Carbing up for the ride may be enough to keep you from fully adapting. You may want to read "The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance" by Phinny and Volek if you are interested in high performance, but not nec. the weight loss.

Goog

I've been an avid cyclist for several years and find that time and distance aren't as much a factor in fuel needs as is intensity. I can ride all day (100+ miles) at touring speeds on nuts, dried berries and jerky, but when I ride shorter more intense rides with a group or for training, I need more carbs and will switch to homemade granola or oatmeal raisin cookies.